Line from Under Siege
Jordan Tate - "I'm the girl, why do I have to carry all the stuff?"
Ryback - "I support women's lib, don't you"
Jordan Tate - "When it works in my favor"
Yeah, but this attitude doesn't exist in real life right, anyone who points it out is just a misogynist, right?
Saturday, May 31, 2008
Friday, May 30, 2008
Male Female dynamics revisited.
Aright, it's happened again, another SM thread got closed too early.
This one is on the often discussed phenom of interracial relationships, and yes once again, it's the desi woman attempting to defend their actions,
when really a defense is not required. Rather just an honest look and admission
Now, the person with whom this exchange was carried out with, Ak, is actually a very honest and forthright person, she's willing to actually challenge most gender norms and has hinted at real belief in equality between the genders, this already puts her in the top 1%. So just wanted to make that clear, but her last contribution in this exchange had really exposed her lack of understanding on certain basic issues. Let's go over them:
link
my statement:
"It's not towards them, it's toward their inability to realize how they've been socially manipulated and disneyfied, and more so than that, how most of them get burned in the long run (many data points to prove this). but in the end, maybe they deserve it."
her response:
please. maybe if there is a racist attitude involved, they 'deserve' it. but when many guys say this, it is sour grapes - at their core, many of these men who comment about such inter-racial couples are not upset over the racist element, if any - they are upset because they feel they are directly affected by it b/c they lost out on yet another potential desi girl. i don't see (as many) desi men lamenting when black or latina women date outside their respective races. "
Of course, here is where she tries to compartmentalize things in an impractical way. Of course there will be an element of racialized thinking. the entire white race is *defined* by racialized thinking. The white race wouldn't exist as a group, if not for superiority and racial heirarchies. Her point of the guys major complaint being "losing out a potential desi girl" is not supported, by her OWN STATEMENTS!
her statement: "have many a desi guy friend who have felt desi women being 'stolen' from them by white guys, but no such sentiment when the women they desired (or didn't desire, as the case may be) were dating somebody else who happened to be desi.."
link here
you can't have it both ways. first you say desi men only get pissed off when whiteboys take our 'sisters', then you go on to say desi guys are only pissed because they lose a potential option. So which is it? are us desi guys pissed that we are getting once again shafted for not being white? or are we just pissed we can't fuck a potential "one of our own"
Now, I wont discount your point entirely, there is an element of a 'lost shot' but the reason it irks us when you go white instead of to another desi guy, is precisely because you must acknowledge the nature of what it means to BE white, ie, a notion of superiority to other races.
her statement continued:
"so, what is this - revenge via marriage? just because you have some grudge against white people and history doesn't mean that everybody else has to. and have we learned nothing that we should continue such practises in our generation and time? it's a very slippery slope to continue attributing to individuals the actions and crimes of their race and ancestors. if i want to marry a white guy, i really don't give a toss what anybody else thinks - don't try to second-guess the thinking - consciously or sub-consciously - of everybody that doesn't conform to your approved practises. "
Ah, now here's some real errant thinking. the ol' "grudge against white people" argument. Of course, anyone who points out historical fact, all of a sudden has a 'grudge'. Secondly, by pointing out that history and suggesting action or at least acknowledgement of that history, we are "continuing such practices in our generation and time"? Was MLK "continuing such practices" when he demanded rights for black people, and demanded SPECIAL TREATMENT to help the 'shackled runner'? To neglect a power hierarchy and its translation into the sphere of relationships is, to put it plain, naive. Seriously this is like 2nd grade stuff here.
As for you marrying a white guy, go right ahead, and don't give a toss what anyone thinks, just don't delude yourself into thinking you arrived at that choice in a complete vacuum - and were able to 'think beyond race'
"and of propensities towards white people - this may be so, but i don't know what says that we shouldn't have a propensity towards white people, or "
nothing, yearn for that white, circumsized dick as much as you want, just acknowledge the reasons why such a propensity would exist, and realize that it's not some coincidence pieced together independent of the racial history and the images of who and what we define as attractive. it's the same reason I shriek when I hear desi guys say, " I just dont find black girls attractive" and don't have the guts to understand why such a preference would come to fruition in the first place.
"that we should have a propensity towards desi people. each person is a result of their circumstances, be they geographical, socio-economic, ethnic, religious, academic or otherwise. and these may very well make them have more in common with somebody who is of a differet race or ethnicity, but nonetheless they have - not just think they have - more in common with such people, whether or not other desis think that is 'right.'""
Sorry, but I dont care if you're a desi living in the biggest podunk redneck town in the world, if you think you have "more in common" with someone outside of your race, that's simply ridiculous on a large scale level. No white person has ever been mistaken carte blanche for a terrorist. No white person has been denied anything for that matter, or been made to feel like a complete outsider simply because their skin is the wrong tone.
Say you don't like your culture, or your history, or you think all Indian guys have small dicks, or whatever, but quit trying to sugar coat what's going on behind the curtain here.
Especially for us as 1st generation immigrants. for most of us, our parents are all from India, (or south asia), we are at a unique point in time where our experiences easily translate. Its the reason why a blog such as SM gets so much readership in the first place! Is this really so difficult to process?
This one is on the often discussed phenom of interracial relationships, and yes once again, it's the desi woman attempting to defend their actions,
when really a defense is not required. Rather just an honest look and admission
Now, the person with whom this exchange was carried out with, Ak, is actually a very honest and forthright person, she's willing to actually challenge most gender norms and has hinted at real belief in equality between the genders, this already puts her in the top 1%. So just wanted to make that clear, but her last contribution in this exchange had really exposed her lack of understanding on certain basic issues. Let's go over them:
link
my statement:
"It's not towards them, it's toward their inability to realize how they've been socially manipulated and disneyfied, and more so than that, how most of them get burned in the long run (many data points to prove this). but in the end, maybe they deserve it."
her response:
please. maybe if there is a racist attitude involved, they 'deserve' it. but when many guys say this, it is sour grapes - at their core, many of these men who comment about such inter-racial couples are not upset over the racist element, if any - they are upset because they feel they are directly affected by it b/c they lost out on yet another potential desi girl. i don't see (as many) desi men lamenting when black or latina women date outside their respective races. "
Of course, here is where she tries to compartmentalize things in an impractical way. Of course there will be an element of racialized thinking. the entire white race is *defined* by racialized thinking. The white race wouldn't exist as a group, if not for superiority and racial heirarchies. Her point of the guys major complaint being "losing out a potential desi girl" is not supported, by her OWN STATEMENTS!
her statement: "have many a desi guy friend who have felt desi women being 'stolen' from them by white guys, but no such sentiment when the women they desired (or didn't desire, as the case may be) were dating somebody else who happened to be desi.."
link here
you can't have it both ways. first you say desi men only get pissed off when whiteboys take our 'sisters', then you go on to say desi guys are only pissed because they lose a potential option. So which is it? are us desi guys pissed that we are getting once again shafted for not being white? or are we just pissed we can't fuck a potential "one of our own"
Now, I wont discount your point entirely, there is an element of a 'lost shot' but the reason it irks us when you go white instead of to another desi guy, is precisely because you must acknowledge the nature of what it means to BE white, ie, a notion of superiority to other races.
her statement continued:
"so, what is this - revenge via marriage? just because you have some grudge against white people and history doesn't mean that everybody else has to. and have we learned nothing that we should continue such practises in our generation and time? it's a very slippery slope to continue attributing to individuals the actions and crimes of their race and ancestors. if i want to marry a white guy, i really don't give a toss what anybody else thinks - don't try to second-guess the thinking - consciously or sub-consciously - of everybody that doesn't conform to your approved practises. "
Ah, now here's some real errant thinking. the ol' "grudge against white people" argument. Of course, anyone who points out historical fact, all of a sudden has a 'grudge'. Secondly, by pointing out that history and suggesting action or at least acknowledgement of that history, we are "continuing such practices in our generation and time"? Was MLK "continuing such practices" when he demanded rights for black people, and demanded SPECIAL TREATMENT to help the 'shackled runner'? To neglect a power hierarchy and its translation into the sphere of relationships is, to put it plain, naive. Seriously this is like 2nd grade stuff here.
As for you marrying a white guy, go right ahead, and don't give a toss what anyone thinks, just don't delude yourself into thinking you arrived at that choice in a complete vacuum - and were able to 'think beyond race'
"and of propensities towards white people - this may be so, but i don't know what says that we shouldn't have a propensity towards white people, or "
nothing, yearn for that white, circumsized dick as much as you want, just acknowledge the reasons why such a propensity would exist, and realize that it's not some coincidence pieced together independent of the racial history and the images of who and what we define as attractive. it's the same reason I shriek when I hear desi guys say, " I just dont find black girls attractive" and don't have the guts to understand why such a preference would come to fruition in the first place.
"that we should have a propensity towards desi people. each person is a result of their circumstances, be they geographical, socio-economic, ethnic, religious, academic or otherwise. and these may very well make them have more in common with somebody who is of a differet race or ethnicity, but nonetheless they have - not just think they have - more in common with such people, whether or not other desis think that is 'right.'""
Sorry, but I dont care if you're a desi living in the biggest podunk redneck town in the world, if you think you have "more in common" with someone outside of your race, that's simply ridiculous on a large scale level. No white person has ever been mistaken carte blanche for a terrorist. No white person has been denied anything for that matter, or been made to feel like a complete outsider simply because their skin is the wrong tone.
Say you don't like your culture, or your history, or you think all Indian guys have small dicks, or whatever, but quit trying to sugar coat what's going on behind the curtain here.
Especially for us as 1st generation immigrants. for most of us, our parents are all from India, (or south asia), we are at a unique point in time where our experiences easily translate. Its the reason why a blog such as SM gets so much readership in the first place! Is this really so difficult to process?
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