I have no intention of blogging.
Let me just make that clear. However, I've found myself having my opinions mangled and tangled, as well as making various slipson a bunch of blogs. In addition, I've had more than once people say to me, "I've followed your posts..." and usuallyfollow that up with some type of criticism or negative attack.
I'm a pretty private person, maybe a bit more so private than the average person, so even though it's just text, this is a bit strange for me. My prediction is no one will read this, or give two sh*ts, and that's fine, but it's more for me to clear the airabout a some certain points.
I was involved in a discussion recently that included the Nation of Islam (NOI) and found myself defending them and in particular their current spiritual head, the Min. Louis Farrakhan. This was a discussion that I had no intention of engaging in, as I hadn't brought up either topic.
If one looks at the core message of the NOI during its inception, it has nothing to do with the current characteristics and "dead weight" lets say that it's bogged down with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20AWmX0SN-w
Now, I understand posting a youtube clip will not sell my case completely, after all, it's black and white, the sound is a little off, the color temperature is not perfect. the onVP6 Flash Codec may come off as creepy, the intraframe compression might generate too many artifacts, people might want a high fidelity bit rate, or perhaps MPEG4 part10 compression scheme.
Viewers might not be able to handle it. Malcolm's voice might just be so daunting that, no matter what he's actually saying, people may hear "go kill every white person you see"
Still, I stare these potential obstacles in the eye, and hope that it's clear why I don't think it's cool to outright dismiss the organization as a hate group. Because the NOI wasn't formed for the purpose of intimidation, or extermination of any one group. That was never (and really still isn't) a component of its plan of action.
My apology if this is poorly construted, as I said before,
I have no intention of blogging.
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33 comments:
That's a shame since your comments are memorable.
Yeah, that's better than the Calypso Louis vid. I can see the attraction of Malcolm. He strikes me as genuine, dignified and charismatic...even if he was terribly misguided especially in comparison to MLK. But Louis is no Malcolm. I can see why Louis wanted him dead.
If the NOI weren't a racist anti-semitic misogynist homophobic cult, I be attracted to them as well.
Seriously Manju, the link wasn't for you, it was for those who might actually be unwhite-washed thinkers, who didn't spend time going into the depths of NOI history.
Louis X modeled his speaking style AFTER malcolm, if you read the book "remembering malcolm" by benjamin karim, you might know that. It was only after Elijah Mohammed's indescretions came to light, their bifurcation became more readily apparent.
But its no use speaking to a white guy with a really good tan, as far as civil rights and black nationalism is concerned.
You're "malcolm vs mlk" comparison is stright out of a 3rd grade textbook, completely unsophisticated in every aspect. "Malcolm was an integrationist!"
hmf:
did i ever mention i thought de la hoya beat trinidad. Probably you don't see the relavance in that.
i would've went with foreman-ali, but like ali.
I can honestly say I have no clue what in holy hell you're talking about, unless you're trying to make some underhanded joke about how I don't respond with relevant information.
What I do know is this, after all I've read about black nationalism and the civil rights movement, I wouldn't for a split second think I know what it's like to share their experience or intuit their reality. which is helluva lot more than I can say about you with your statements like
"POC needs to grow up and get balls" and "POC aren't really victimized by racism anymore"
what? a NOI fellow-traveler doesn't follow boxing? I was referring to ali and the politics of authenticity. Foreman raising the American flag during the same Olympics where the two runners raised a leather clad fist. and his subsequent labeling as an uncle tom. and finally, de la hoya and his complex relationship with Mexicans. But never mind.
Anyway, my advice to you is that those who traffic in ideas that intersect with anti-Semitism should take care to disassociate oneself from anti-semitic hate groups.
"POC aren't really victimized by racism anymore"
HNF, Just out of curiosity, I tried to search this staement of mine on SM in order to find the context but came up with nothing. Where did you get this from?
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004662.html#comment160045
pulled quote
"I don't think white racism is prevalent enough to hold POC back."
And its clear the context is only what it can be, you are attempting to intuit a reality which you really have no access to.
"Anyway, my advice to you is that those who traffic in ideas that intersect with anti-Semitism should take care to disassociate oneself from anti-semitic hate groups."
If I want white-media driven advice I'll watch bill oreilly. the NOI is not an "anti semitic hate group" as say the KKK/National Alliance/White supremists are. The NOI does not call for mass elimination of jews as these other outfits do. Maybe you'll get it, maybe you wont.
"And its clear the context is only what it can be, you are attempting to intuit a reality which you really have no access to."
So you just made up a quote and assigned it to me?
"no access to"? i'm a POC. and even if i weren't, i'd still have access to a transcedence of knowledge.
Uhh..
you said what I said you said (I didnt remember the exact quote, however the gist is essentially the same) it in the post I quoted:
"But you're right. I did find Leutisha more irritating. I don't think white racism is prevalent enough to hold POC back. But the racism we impose upon ourselves is a much more powerful thing"
[link].
Is this not an attempt to intuit the reality of being an African American in the US? please tell me what context you meant this in, if not that.
Not only do you swallow the white world view without question, you engage in their practices of trying to erase the past.
About "transcendence", unless you're a dharma-yogi who's mastered all kinds of siddhis, institutional (and hell even extreme virulent forms) of racism against black folks are not experiencable unless you're a target. As south asians, yes we can intuit our realities, but don't be general and say POC, because that's inclusive of African Americans.
HMF:
suffice to say, i did not write what you originally quoted me as writing. I'll leave it to others to decide if the two quotes are essentially the same.
As far as intuiting the experience of POC, including African Americans...yes that's what I did and I see nothing wrong with that. I sure you have your own opinion of how blacks experience racism in America. you're entitled to them and we are free to argue who is right.
Are you nitpicking a difference between...
"POC aren't really victimized by racism anymore"
and
"I don't think white racism is prevalent enough to hold POC back"
???
What are you? Sanjay Gupta?
" sure you have your own opinion of how blacks experience racism in America."
Actually I don't but it's not as inocuous as your backtracking suggests, Your opinion is not merely "an opinion" it's a direct challenge to those african american's who say they are affected by racism, and implicit in that are two things:
1. Black people are too stupid to intuit their own reality (therefore us white, and our model minority spokespeople will tell them)
2. Black people are being purposefully disingenuous when they state that racism on a large scale, when history shows that most underrepresented minorities usually don't report racism for fear of being labelled a "race baiter" or "playing the race card" and only do so when it's so ridiculously clear they have an airtight case.
So yes, it's very idignant to say you have remotely any reasonably correct clue what a black person experiences in terms of institutional racism, as it's a day to day thing, not one time occurances.
Lastly...
"'ll leave it to others to decide if the two quotes are essentially the same. "
You actually think anyone else is reading this shit?
"Are you nitpicking a difference between..."
yes. my quote acknowledged racism exists but POC have the power to overcome it in a free democratic capitalist nation.
"No one wants that kind of heat, especially if you're a person of color."
You said this on SM. POC includes blacks, as you argue. so, by your own argument, you are calling blacks who disagree with you (and there were at least two on that very thread) "too stupid to intuit their own reality" and "are being purposefully disingenuous"
In a way yes, I am saying those people of color who disagree with my on those particular points are being disingenuous, thats the cornerstone of being an uncle tom, it's playing ball with the white world view in order to not be marginalized (or as marginalized)
Did you see the USA polls I posted on the 'intel' thread? most black people do agree that racism of the past plays a significant hinderance NOW.
""POC aren't really victimized by racism anymore""
Doesn't this statement equally state that all people of color can overcome racism by democratic bla bla bla?, the only thing I didn't do was acknowledge that you said white racism exists. but if it exists but has no significant deleterious effect, whats the point of stating it?
stop sanjay gupta'ing.
what did sanjay gupta do?
He stood up to that leftist anti american michael moore in defense of all life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Then he took the purple pill. What's more american than that
he's an uncle tom?
No, he just nitpicked a silly point against Michael Moore's movie SiCKO, then contended his nitpick actually had some kind significant relevance to someone making a decision about which country spent more on healthcare, Cuba or the US.
nitpick huh? you put something in quotation marks that was never said. then you interpret the "quote" as being tantamount to calling blacks "stupid" and "purposefully disingenuous" when (by your own admittance) it is you who thinks such things (project much?) and then you complain about nitpicking when you're taken to task.
1.please point out the radical difference between what I quoted first, and what I showed you said. It's a nitpick and you continue to nitpick the fact that I call it a nitpick, so you're doing a double gupta.
2. Show me a significant portion of the black population that believes racism perpetrated in the past DOESN't have an effect today, then we'll see who's making what assumptions.
when 6% of the white population believes it had no effect, but 55% of the black population believes it does, there's an obvious disconnect in perception.
Now who's perception are you going to take as more valid?
link
all you do is talk in circles, (similar when I pointed out quotes by MLK where he clearly supported blacks to believe in their BLACK identity, and seek what would be termed TODAY as reparations)
You're not taking anything to 'task' rather repeatedly convincing me and the invisible man who's still reading this that you have the most unsophisticated view of the civil rights movement, and racial disparity (check out glass ceiling comission findings)
"please point out the radical difference between what I quoted first, and what I showed you said."
I think Malcolm X said it best:
"However much slave history taught us about the injustice and misery we as a people had suffered, it did not excuse us from assuming responsibility for ourselves and each other by altering its course."
My quote recognizes the existence of past and present racism, but does not allow its existence to be an excuse for failure, especially in a free capitalistic society like the US (I'd excuse groups of people for not being able to succeed in cuba.)
The Jews show the way, overcoming great discrimination by emphasizing family values, hard work, studiousness, and entrepreneurship. in fact, they turned a negative into a positive as struggle often builds character. Malcolm himself had many quotes showing his disgust with the welfare society.
"Show me a significant portion of the black population that believes racism perpetrated in the past DOESN't have an effect today, then we'll see who's making what assumptions."
its irrelevant to my argument, but you just did it for me:
"but 55% of the black population believes it does"
leaving 45% who, by your own argument, are "stupid"
but it doesn't matter to me. if a majority of blacks think OJ is innocent, it doesn't make him any less guilty. truth is not settled by a poll.
"similar when I pointed out quotes by MLK where he clearly supported blacks to believe in their BLACK identity,"
clarly, malcolm x viewed mlk differently from you:
"today Martin Luther King is just a 20th century or modern Uncle Tom"
leaving 45% who, by your own argument, are "stupid"
actually, the poll has 33% as not supporting this particular point of cash endowments for descendents of slaves.
If you phrase the question as "does past racism have an effect today" the data is much more skewed.
Show me a poll that most blacks believe OJ is innocent, in fact its a big joke within the black community, chris rock even said
"That shit wasn't about race it was about fame, if oj were black and a bus driver, he'd be orinthal the bus driver murderer"
Haven't you learned not to mess with me on malcolm x?
Mx also said, "Now my feeling was that although the civil rights leaders kept attacking us Muslims, they were still black people, still our own kind" (autobiography, 274)
or how about "The goal has always been the same, with the approaches to it as different as mine and Dr. Martin Luther King's non violent marching, that dramatizes the brutality and evil of the white man against defenseless blacks" (autobiography, p. 385)
seriously, you really haven't read a lick, that's readily apparent.
"That shit wasn't about race it was about fame, if oj were black and a bus driver, he'd be orinthal the bus driver murderer"
I mean, if he was a black bus driver (as in, not famous)
By the way, I never said anything against personal responsibility, and I've quoted malcolm & martins quotes on personal responsibility, in fact the NOI during the 60s was the largest organization responsible for rehabilitating black criminals from the penal system after their release, they had the largest success rates, as NOI members couldn't do drugs or commit any crimes or anything of that sort. NOI members were instructed to follow all laws. It's the very same responsiblity you call for.
However these men knew that whites held all the cards as far as institutional racism was concerned. Malcolm did not believe that white people were devoid of said responsibility:
"Where the really sincere white people have got to do their proving of themselves is not among the black victims but out on the battle lines of where America's racism really is-and that's in their own home communities" (autiobiograhy, pg 383).
"in fact the NOI during the 60s was the largest organization responsible for rehabilitating black criminals from the penal system after their release, they had the largest success rates, as NOI members couldn't do drugs or commit any crimes or anything of that sort. NOI members were instructed to follow all laws. It's the very same responsiblity you call for."
i know. that's why i said i'd support them if it weren't for the fact theat they are vicious bigots, like the JDL.
it's sad when a right-wing conservative has to lecture a self-apointed race hustler on the true meaning of malcolm.
"(check out glass ceiling comission findings)"
glass ceiling? who cares! start your own company. ever hear of goldman sachs, lehman bros, bear sterns, or for that matter bollywood.
i don't care about a glass ceiling or the civil rights act. why beg the white man for acceptance? go on your own and sell to your own people if you have to. malcolm would be a right-wing conservative if he were alive today.
HMF! Wow I can stalk,uumm I mean read you, in a more 'private' space than SM.
dilettante, you were right. This is hot.
"goldman sachs, lehman bros, bear sterns,"
simplistic and idiotic. Blacks and Jews have wildly different histories and ghettoizations going on. Banks would equally lend to blacks and whites with same propensity?
"it's sad when a right-wing conservative has to lecture a self-apointed race hustler on the true meaning of malcolm."
it's also sad when osama bin laden becomes mayor of my city, because both of these events have equal likelihood of happening.
dilettante,
umm, I dont know what to say? maybe I should post something new?
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