This blog, over the past few weeks has seen some increased traffic, a surprise to me, no doubt. I don't know whether it's some
collective joke against me, or a serious inquiry and engagement on the issues I have brought up over my time on SM and
subsequently here, since my removal from there.
It appears that a few unanswered questions and uncontestable points have been uncovered, let's run them down. By the way, I appreciate the effort made by the people who have attempted to combat me on these issues. However, it's clear they have yet again proved to be unsuccessful.
-Women are granted a right to be emotional and those emotions are treated as more valuable and protectable.
Reasons: Men showing emotion are often regarded as being weak, as a man who does show emotion is told
by society to "be a man" with the implication being, don't let these emotions get to you. Men have a higher demand
on them to be in control of their emotions.
-Women can minimize emotional risk in relationships, by taking refuge in adopting a "I only want to be approached" strategy and hence keep their emotional connection to relationships and sex.
Reasons: Because we live in a society that grants women the privilege to sit back and wait for approaches and "select" , they do not have to endure difficulties that men have to endure. In order for a man to succeed he has to harden his skin to multiple rejections, women on the other hand do not. A woman can meter the amount of emotional investment she makes by simply rejecting or not rejecting the man. Society privileges her absolutely, in this regard. All the difficulty lies with the male, because the male must basically hoodwink the woman into believing he is emotionally connected, all the while maintaining a strict policy of emotional distance- otherwise he risks another rejection tarnishing his self worth - and further corrupting his chances for future relationships
For example, lets say a woman approaches, and gets rejected. She feels bad and adopts a policy of "I will only be approached and chased."
Now, lets say a man appraoches and gets rejected, he too feels bad, but cannot adopt the same policy, as society deems it "unmanly" and "against the nature of manhood" so he has to go back and get repeatedly rejected again and again. And moreover, has to hear about how hard women have it in life being treated as unequals, yet this glaring inequality is so often glossed over.
And to the b*tches that say "If she's not interested, then just shake it off and move on" How about taking some of your own advice? but no, you don't take that advice, you just fall back onto the privilege you take for granted when dispensing this advice.
Now I understand that a woman can undergo the pain of investing emotions and having them not returned, and can also feel "burned." But it's a different animal when society questions your very existence and very place on earth for not approaching, and taking all the steps to escalation. In a sense, we are always risking ourselves, women have the chance to assess interest then make the decision. Men do not have that luxury.
If women truly want to be equal partners in a relationship, they should be willing to shoulder half the load.
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39 comments:
Who are the women being "approached and chased" all the time? Very few. Those that look whatever is considered "hot" all the time. Being that statistics show that the majority of women are "overweight" to some degree in America, I bet you anything that the majority of women are not getting "approached and chased".
The majority of women do not look like movie stars or supermodels. If they do not put themselves out there and approach men and risk rejection as well, well they end up alone most of the time. Trust me, this is the majority of my friends and family I'm talking about here.
Well, women's dateability factor declines dramatically after 35. Men do better in that regard. So it is not all bad. My friend who is 39 is dating a 23 year old. Life does have some equalizers.
"Who are the women being "approached and chased" all the time? Very few."
Certainly this point is well taken, the top 1% will be approached and chased the most. However, one need not be a model to be approached and chased.
There you go with the quotes again, I dont know if you're being serious or questioning the term you put within quotes.
Are you saying that majoroity of women are NOT overweight? please clarify the intent.
And yes, overweight women, or those women that haven't been blessed even with moderate looks have a tough time, a tougher time than men with avg or less than avg looks, I agree there.
"Trust me, this is the majority of my friends and family I'm talking about here."
No I dont trust you, because it doesnt correlate to my experience. I am telling you. I can count on my single hand the # of women that have approached me.
unless you're family and friends are completely steering clear of a major metropolitan area, they
Even moderately attractive girls do not need to approach.
>>>"My friend who is 39 is dating a 23 year old. Life does have some equalizers."
Another fair point, however, a man that doesnt mean a man doesn't have to toughen his skin to multiple rejections and keep reframing his thinking.
I'd bet this 39 year old has been the recepient of many rejections and had to overcome them in order to secure the 23 year old.
Let's say Im in my mid 20s, being rejected, I cannot take refuge in the fact that 15 years from now I will be given a 23 year old automatically.
With every rejection, it just reinforces the notion that whatever you do and have done simply isn't good enough. with so much pain affecting one side, we have no choice but to divorce emotional connection from the initial interactions. (and perhaps even later ones)
We have much more inner mental work to do than women, it's just a fact.
"Another fair point, however, a man that doesnt mean a man doesn't have to toughen his skin to multiple rejections and keep reframing his thinking."
What I mean here is
"a man that has this opportunity afforded to him doesn't preclude the requirement to harden his skin to multiple rejection and keep reframing his thinking."
And let me elaborate on "reframing"
Here's an oft quoted example, lets say a mother is on a bus with her 3 unruly kids and they are causing trouble. the passengers would get crazy and annoyed and angry.
Now, if I tell you her husband died last week, and she's been busy getting things together and hasn't had time to tend after the children as much, all of a sudden your perception of the situation changes.
It's a reframe.
So men have to continually do this (as we have to develop ways to preserve our self-worth given a rejection) so she didnt reject me because of me.. she rejected me because maybe she had a rough week, or had a fight with her parents, or got dumped on by her boss, or whatever....
We have to constantly reframe to preserve our internal core. Essentially what it amounts to is "fuck that bitch she doesn't know what she's missing"
yet doing this 100 times continuously means what? it starts losing its effect. By the way, women have no similar struggle in this regard. not even close.
"Life does have some equalizers."
Life did have equalizers, earlier men could take refuge in the traditional gender role of the man being in charge and the woman submitting, as a gender role.
Now, however, to say this is to be sexist. Although all the inequties that I brought up are deemed as "endemic to the mating game" and not socialized. How convenient. Any hypocrites care to weasel out an explanation?
What it really is, is a catch 22. no girl wants to be with you unless you're experienced.
But how do you get experience unless you find a girl who accepts a less than experienced guy.
But for girls its easy to get experience - they get approached.
HMF you say the number of women who have approached you have been miniscule. Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps more women would approach you and other men if they felt confident enough that the men would not turn them down based on their weight or looks?
Women think like this; If I'm not getting approached, that means I'll be turned down if I approach. So why bother?
Nevertheless many women do approach and suffer rejection just like you or other guys.
Sure we don't have to look like supermodels, but on average we are alot heavier than they are and today's men aren't into that. So I don't know what you mean by "moderate looks". Walk out your front door and look at all the women, that's moderate, that's average. That is what real women look like. We look like your mom, your aunts, your cousins, your sisters. And the reason why we don't approach you is because you would most likely turn us down.
(not speaking for myself here, I'm speaking for "everywoman")
"Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps more women would approach you and other men if they felt confident enough that the men would not turn them down based on their weight or looks?"
Again you're going down the same path as before, I understand that women don't approach out of fear of being rejected. but men live in a society where WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. Women do NOT!
But what you say is completely not true. by your logic, the hottest women in the world would approach always, as they'd be the least likeliest to be turned down. But they are the ones that approach the least. Why? Because soceity tells them they don't have to.
"Nevertheless many women do approach and suffer rejection just like you or other guys."
I have many women friends that adopt strict non-approach philosphies.
" but on average we are alot heavier than they are and today's men aren't into that"
What? on average women are heavier than men? where are you pulling this nonsense out of?
"And the reason why we don't approach you is because you would most likely turn us down."
Again. if men adopted that reason WE WOULD HAVE OUR VERY BEING CALLED INTO QUESTION. where as women WOULDNT. a woman can still call herself a woman by saying, "I only wait to get approached"
"(not speaking for myself here, I'm speaking for "everywoman")"
based on your discussion on the other thread, its crystal clear you don't include yourself in this category.
See, this is a case of Affirmative Action that society has bestowed on women to compensate for their centuries of being oppressed by the male gender. See how it sucks when differing standards of equality being bestowed on a group lands up making things unbalanced for people who had nothing to do with the prior imbalance ? ;-)
Track back and read my gender issues != race issues post.
The obvious stupidity of your comparison doesn't even deserve a response.
You have admitted you were wrong that a black man could become President of the US. But the idea that society is bending over backwards to indulge a separate code of ethics for women in the dating world, similar to the issues of Affirmative Action is unbelievable. Ok, I guess we'll have to wait till that also dawns on you :-)
"You have admitted you were wrong that a black man could become President of the US"
wait wait hang on. I never said he couldn't become president, I said historically that's been sealed off and it was highly unlikely, and that if it happend, I'd be surprised.
"But the idea that society is bending over backwards to indulge a separate code of ethics for women in the dating world, similar to the issues of Affirmative Action is unbelievable."
It's not similar to the issues of AA. Please point to me where women were the victims of state sponsored segregation. In fact point to me a society of women that men went to, to import them here.
The interactions of men and women and whites and blacks are so totally incongruous comparing gender differences and racial differences is completely , and utterly nonsensical.
"It's not similar to the issues of AA. Please point to me where women were the victims of state sponsored segregation. In fact point to me a society of women that men went to, to import them here."
Black men got the right to vote (at least on paper) under the 15th Amendment in 1868. Women were repeatedly denied that right for 50 more years till the 19th Amendment passed in 1920. If that isn't a clear case of institutional discrimination against women (when ironically one section of African American people got a right sooner), I don't know what is.
Trafficking in women is a huge problem in the US. Thousands are literally slaves imported in from S Asia & Eastern Europe and kept as prostitutes by organized crime.
Women are still denied entry to men only clubs/organizations, make less than men in several professions despite doing the same work.
Crimes and violence against women just because of their gender is a significant issue.
So there a significant overlap/intersection of the institutionalized discrimination against women & Black population. So the analogy of AA is accurate.
Yet you have this oddly disconnected view of the two issues. It is as though you have decided on an answer and then work on fitting some equation to reach that conclusion, rather than letting the facts and deductions lead you to the answer that fits them.
"Black men got the right to vote (at least on paper) under the 15th Amendment in 1868. "
Exactly. black males getting the right to vote really only occurred in 1965. The voting rights act.
"Thousands are literally slaves imported in from S Asia & Eastern Europe and kept as prostitutes by organized crime. "
I'd say it's racism/class-ism just as much as it is sexism. And like you said.. organized CRIME. so these people are BREAKING THE LAW.
Yet blacks and other minorities were treated as 2nd class citizens UNDER THE LAW.
"Crimes and violence against women just because of their gender is a significant issue."
With the exception of rape and domestic violence, men are 4 times as more likely to be the victim of violent crime. Read my other blog post. But you're too busy in the basement.
"So there a significant overlap/intersection of the institutionalized discrimination against women & Black population. So the analogy of AA is accurate.
"
No it absolutely isnt, there is much more physical and biological evidence showing difference between men and women, ALL the differnces ascribed to men and women are COMPLETELY SOCIAL.
Now does that justify CRIMES and unequal treatment of women in the workplace. of course not, I have never said they have. what I do say is erroneous is taking race based differnces and actions (like AA) and porting them over carte blanche to gender.
For example, women make less for the same work, yet we live in a society that expects men to pay for and "take care" of women. Isnt it only fair for men to make more money per capita, if they have to give some of it to women, in order to meet societal expectation? But no, no one thinks that.
I've heard every one of these points prior to this, you havent brought anything new to the table.
But thats what happens when one spends too much time in the basement.
That is not true with men and women. Seriously , change your handle to "head dwells in the ass" because that would be more accurate.
"ALL the differnces ascribed to men and women are COMPLETELY SOCIAL."
should read
"All the differences between blacks and whites, are COMPLETELY SOCIAL" - all statements that posited race-based biological and behavioral differences were motivated by racism.
Yet there are many books and articles that posit male/female behavioral differenes, such as "The female brain' by louanne brizedine. (sp?)
Assuming you're male, let me just ask you, don't you feel the pressure of approaching women? And feel that society tells you it's YOUR JOB to do it, not do it if you want to, but if you like her, it's UP TO YOU to do it, otherwise you're not a man?
Doesn't that strike you as unjust and unequal? And thats just the tip of the iceberg.
Now if you're great looking, have lots of money, etc.. then I can see how these difficulties may not affect you.
But lets say your points reg'ding suffrage and the sex trade contain even an iota of merit (which they do not, but lets say they do)
How does this somehow counteract the gross inequality that faces men and women in the "dating game" **
As a man, can I take solace that women didnt get the right to vote until 1920, when she rejects me on basis of money / looks, when she goes around saying "personality is #1", or does it help any knowing that women from thailand are bartered into slavery, when a woman has the clear privilege of sitting back and waiting for approaches while us guys have to continually tell ourselves we're quality people even though we've been rejected multiple times.
**(by the way, shanti, that is an acceptable use of quotations, see, there's no actual "dating game" other than the TV show, which I'm obviously not making a specific reference to, so by putting it in quotes Im indicating that I'm using the term "dating game" as a blanket term for male/female interactions prior to LTRs)
"But what you say is completely not true. by your logic, the hottest women in the world would approach always, as they'd be the least likeliest to be turned down. But they are the ones that approach the least. Why? Because soceity tells them they don't have to."
Now you are just playing dumb. The hottest women are NOT approaching because THEY DON'T HAVE TO (they are getting approached by men regularly). But for the rest of us who are not getting approached regularly, well, we have to do it.
....
" but on average we are alot heavier than they are and today's men aren't into that"
--What? on average women are heavier than men? where are you pulling this nonsense out of?--
....
NO, go back and read that statement in context with the sentence it appears in. Hint: it has something to do with supermodels.
HMF, if you're really desi you can forego the qoutation marked "dating game" altogether and have an arranged marriage. You might be happy to know that in the "arranged marriage game", it's usually the "girl's family" that approaches the "boy's family" first.
So you can now kiss your lonely, angst-ridden days bye bye.
"Now you are just playing dumb. The hottest women are NOT approaching because THEY DON'T HAVE TO (they are getting approached by men regularly). But for the rest of us who are not getting approached regularly, well, we have to do it. "
Exactly! that's my point! What you just said clearly contradicts the logic you called upon when you said, "a woman stops approaching because she gets rejected" because then those women that DONT get rejected, WOULD approach. but as you rightly pointed out, they dont.
A woman stops approaching because:
1. society tells her she doesn't have to
2. she's biologically wired to not approach.
It's gotta be one of the two.
the "rest of you" aren't getting REGULARLY appraoched, but you are still getting approached. al beit to a lesser degree.
Yes I agree, fat, unattractive women do not get approached, but they dont approach any more than anyone else, they just suffer in pain and do horrible things to their bodies (and that pain is just as much as a man who gets rejected might feel, if not moreso)
"HMF, if you're really desi you can forego the qoutation marked "dating game" altogether and have an arranged marriage. You might be happy to know that in the "arranged marriage game", it's usually the "girl's family" that approaches the "boy's family" first. "
I dont play that arranged shit, because it yet again exposes an inequity between men and women.
And again with the misquoting!? are they not really girls family? do they not approach the "boys family"
The only problem with that system is, if you accept, you're stuck with this person your whole damn life. WE should have arranged one night stands, then maybe the inequities would be addressed.
seriously learn how to use them properly for "once"
"o you can now kiss your lonely, angst-ridden days bye bye."
and now I know you truly have no place to go, a valiant effort no doubt, but any attempt to poke holes in the conclusions I've drawn will come up empty.
not that I mind your presence here, but, if I was allowed to boink someone 7 times and got personalized coaching sessions, I'd not be too happy if the boinked was spending time on a "lonely angst ridden ranter"
*take note of the quote usage again.
...not that I mind your presence here, but, if I was allowed to boink someone 7 times and got personalized coaching sessions, I'd not be too happy if the boinked was spending time on a "lonely angst ridden ranter"...
And tell me exactly why it matters what those who have had sex with me think about how I choose to spend my time?
...The only problem with that system is, if you accept, you're stuck with this person your whole damn life. ...
And where is it a law that once you have an arranged marriage you cannot get a divorce???
"And tell me exactly why it matters what those who have had sex with me think about how I choose to spend my time?"
well assuming they didnt rape you, I assume you cared what these people think, and assuming they are still having sex with you, they might be a bit shocked to know you spend as much time as you do here.
again, I dont mind you here at all. even with your "misuse" of quotes
"And where is it a law that once you have an arranged marriage you cannot get a divorce???"
ok shanti now you are playing dumb, and doing a poor job at it. you know getting a divorce is probably the second hardest thing in the indian community - (not being an engineeer or doctor is the hardest)
look I've disproved all your counterarguments thus far, there's a time to be gracious and admit the wrongness of your pov.
getting a divorce in the indian community is about as easy as
So you're arguing that getting a divorce in the Indian community comes with consequences, but, to qoute you elsewhere; "male respect is never given freely, it must always be earned. And the only way it is earned is by taking complete responsibility for one's words, one's actions and one's decisions."
Can you connect the dots between being scared to get a divorce in the "Indian community" and taking responsibility for one's decisions? I can.
Man up and get a divorce if you need to. Your ma's and baba's and uncles' and aunties' opinions are just that - OPINIONS!
Maybe that's why we desi girls prefer non-desi guys? They are not joined at the hip to their families or "communities"???
Maybe that's why I don't give a damn what any guy who's boinked me thinks about what I do on the net? Because I am living my own life and taking responsibility for my actions, and hopefully they are too???
Do you not see anything contradictory between your "male respect is never given freely", and your cries over how "difficult" it is in the "Indian community" to get a divorce. Awww, poor baby. Why not climb on mama's lap and suck some milk? Life must be so hard for the desi male. First he gets singled out at the airport for random inspection, then he can't get any play from women coz we all prefer non-desi dudes, then he's forced into a marriage he doesn't want and then he can't even get a divorce. Poor baby. Can't take responsibility for anything, can you? Here, have some more milk.
What was that you said about male respect not being given freely again? Ha. ha. ha.
"getting a divorce in the indian community is about as easy as..."
?????
as what? desi guys getting play and taking responsibility for their lives?
ouch. you're right. not so easy.
"Man up and get a divorce if you need to. Your ma's and baba's and uncles' and aunties' opinions are just that - OPINIONS!"
Again, playing dumb, even dumber. By the way, thank you for saying "man up' and proving my point yet again, men are expected to be "stronger" and more emotionally stable. whre has women are granted the privilege of being passive and letting things happen.
Anyway back to the point, if someone enters into an arranged marriage, chances are they are doing so to conform to standard. Now assuming that was done for the sole purpose of sex, (which was the implication in our discussion) you're telling me such a person would find it easy to get a divorce.
Your central thesis is a conflation of points. The taking responsibility for one's actions has nothing to do with getting a divorce, or "getting play"
You "not caring about what people who have boinked you think" does not amount to "living your own life and taking responsibility" The two statements are of a totally different context.
Read over what I said. I was referring to an assumption that you cared about the thoughts of somene who you are currently fucking. That might be an errant assumption - you can let me know if it is.
As for desi's getting no play.. much of it has to do with desi women (and other women in general) that have lodged within them negative biases against them. And all your imagery of milk and this and that just reinforce the negative biases you are programmed with. You have yet again proved me correct.
"Do you not see anything contradictory between your "male respect is never given freely", and your cries over how "difficult" "
Lets go over this again, because you're just conflating two completely separate points.
male respect given freely has to do with women that look pretty and think guys should just do for them without doing anything to earn that respect and attention (anything more than just look pretty)
The take responsibility comes from doing certain actions while in a relationship then actually taking responsibility for them. For example, an ex of mine said we couldn't meet after because her new boyfriend wouldnt be comfortable with it, hogwash, don't pawn it off on someone else. take responsibility, and tell me you dont want to meet because... you'd feel awkward or you just dont like me anymore.. but take responsibility.. here's an area where women are sorely lacking.
Thats the context.
how in the world do you go from that to a man fighting for divorces.. which I agree they should, but we were talking about men who married via the arranged system because they were horny (more or less)... So obviously they've already felt confined by the system, the "taking action" would come in guise of not getting married that way in the first place.
but even so lets say there was a correlation, the taking responsibility part would come AFTER the marriage or divorce.
to just bear the brunt of the action.
your bulls(t statement is such a stretch, Mr. Fantastic would have a problem with it.
Oh and I dont like milk.
"here's an area where women are sorely lacking."
and here's a case where the woman in question harangued for A LONG TIME about how hard women have it in the world, in the workplace, and all that.
Yet when the traditional differences worked out in her favor, she was all but deliriously happy to tow that line.
And it goes back to what Im talking about regarding hypocrisy.
I read the article you linked to and the author appears to have the same intellectual capacity as Sarah Palin.
First he asserts that American men do not respect women. Even sensitive "new age" men who have been born and bred in the age of feminism. How he comes up with this premise I have no idea for it does not cite either anecdotal experience or statistics.
Then he mentions a woman who confessed to once being a frigid wife.
Connection???
Then he makes some statment about "men" and "responsibility". Oooh how macho.
Then he exclaims that he does not know why men don't respect even very accomplished women.
Again, connection between any of these dots please?
If the guy wants to write a piece about a group of people who abnigates responsibility then I should email him and clue him in about our desi community.
Boo hoo. I can't date even though I'm 20, working and living at home, because ma-bap say I can't.
Boo hoo. I can't marry who I want because ma-bap and Puja Auntie say I will bring disgrace upon our family name and they will disinherit me.
Boo hoo. I am now married to someone that I don't like because ma-bap, Puja Auntie and Narotam Uncle said I have to and my spouse is a "good Indian girl/boy".
Boo hoo. I can't get divorced even though our marriage is miserable because otherwise we would both be ostracized from our "communities" and disinherited from the possible millions.
Boo hoo. Did I mention I had to forego a musical career and become a doctor for the very same reasons?
Desis - turn 18, move out of the house, get your own place and own life, ok?
Simple as that.
And that is why any self-respecting desi girl or guy will not date the above mentioned type of desi. And boo hoo. They cry about that also.
Where does the buck stop???
But yet, after reading that article, I'm supposed to think that somehow American women who are by and large single moms with jobs and oftentimes taking higher education classes, jungling all of that simulataneously, are somehow
not "taking responsibility" for their actions?
Geez. White American Men really do have their heads in the sand sometimes now don't they?
Yep, I'll have to write this guy an email about our community of desi men who are heroically "taking responsibility" for their lives.
PS: if you were a female I would have said, "woman up and get a divorce if you need to". Either way the term is used in place of GROW UP!
And by the way, both myself and my desi partner have been disinherited precisely because we "womaned up" and "manned up" to our overbearing and controlling desi families. How about you?
I read the article you linked to and the author appears to have the same intellectual capacity as Sarah Palin.
First he asserts that American men do not respect women. Even sensitive "new age" men who have been born and bred in the age of feminism. How he comes up with this premise I have no idea for he does not cite either anecdotal experience or statistics.
Then he mentions a woman who confessed to once being a frigid wife.
Connection???
Then he makes some statment about "men" and "responsibility". Oooh how macho.
Then he exclaims that he does not know why men don't respect even very accomplished women.
Again, connection between any of these dots please?
If the guy wants to write a piece about a group of people who abnigates responsibility then I should email him and clue him in about our desi community.
Boo hoo. I can't date even though I'm 20, working and living at home, because ma-bap say I can't.
Boo hoo. I can't marry who I want because ma-bap and Puja Auntie say I will bring disgrace upon our family name and they will disinherit me.
Boo hoo. I am now married to someone that I don't like because ma-bap, Puja Auntie and Narotam Uncle said I have to and my spouse is a "good Indian girl/boy".
Boo hoo. I can't get divorced even though our marriage is miserable because otherwise we would both be ostracized from our "communities" and disinherited from the possible millions.
Boo hoo. Did I mention I had to forego a musical career and become a doctor for the very same reasons?
Desis - turn 18, move out of the house, get your own place and own life, ok?
Simple as that.
And that is why any self-respecting desi girl or guy will not date the above mentioned type of desi. And boo hoo. They cry about that also.
Where does the buck stop???
But yet, after reading that article, I'm supposed to think that somehow American women who are by and large single moms with jobs and oftentimes taking higher education classes, jungling all of that simulataneously, are somehow
not "taking responsibility" for their actions?
Geez. White American Men really do have their heads in the sand sometimes now don't they?
Yep, I'll have to write this guy an email about our community of desi men who are heroically "taking responsibility" for their lives.
PS: if you were a female I would have said, "woman up and get a divorce if you need to". Either way the term is used in place of GROW UP!
And by the way, both myself and my desi partner have been disinherited precisely because we "womaned up" and "manned up" to our overbearing and controlling desi families. How about you?
Your line of logic falls at every statement.
Quote the lines you are using, and I'll show you a leap larger than someone in the matrix.
Since you're sarah palin's debate twin, you completely glossed over the contextualization I offered about his calling women to take responsibility. And it has nothing to do with standing up to chachis and aunties or any of that other bullshit you've said.
Does your desi partner read this blog? Id guess not. I find it interesting that you spend so much time on here.
"if you were a female I would have said, "woman up and get a divorce if you need to"."
You've completely shifted the topic to another dimension, which it seems like you're prone to do. It's called a "straw man argument" where you don't address the point I raised, rather put up some slightly similar point of view (somehow that because I said divorce is difficult in the Indian community, I dont believe in people taking responsibility for their actions)
But I want you to imagine the case of a woman that has come from India, has a 7 yr old daughter, and been married for say 9 years. Now imagine her husband does something bad. Something even divorce-worthy? Are you that stupid and dense to think its just a matter of "woman up and get a divorce" I mean really.
I agree that divorce should be more facilitiated in the Indian community, however I'm also aware that resources and moral support for a woman taking such action is virtually nil.
1. The author of the piece put forth the premise that a. men do not respect women, and b. he does not know why, but c. he threw in a qoute about responsibility, but d. did not provide any connection between any of the above. Neither did he straight out say that women were not responsible nor did he list ways in which they were not.
The piece was not even junior high level.
My desi partner has indeed read some of this blog and he has no issues with me commenting here. Why would he?
I do feel that men and women from India who come to the west need to take full advantage of the oppurtunities here, and that includes the oppurtunity to divorce if need be. If their desi community is constrictive then they simply need to go out and meet non-constrictive and supportive people and make friends. With all the meetup groups available on the net these days from city to city, it's very easy to do.
I cannot stand people who do not take responsibility for their lives. Being desi is no excuse.
"and here's a case where the woman in question harangued for A LONG TIME about how hard women have it in the world, in the workplace, and all that.
Yet when the traditional differences worked out in her favor, she was all but deliriously happy to tow that line.
And it goes back to what Im talking about regarding hypocrisy."
What "case" are you talking about?
Who's the woman that harangued about women in the work place?
You're losing it HMF....
"The piece was not even junior high level."
Read the piece again then.
"Or is it possible that there is a fundamental difference between men and women when it comes to the notion of personal responsibility?"
He's asking a question, and calling it from three disparate cases.
His central thesis is that women don't deserve the respect because the ask for it automatically just by being PRETTY.
Why? because being pretty attracts attention and "approaches" from men, and somehow they believe that should translate overall respect.
I remember I asked a girl if she got a shirt at target, she said, "is that how you complement women" I said, oh you think Im one of those guys that throws them out feely.. sorry.. you gotta earn em. The connection is clear, men don't respect women because they engage in behavior that shows them to be not accountable for their actions and behavior. Boom there's your connection. AND THATS the context of responsibility.
What you're talking about in the desi community is entirely different (but the palin esque debator in you somehow tried to link them)
Because I do agree that things like divorce should be more facilitiated, better yet, lets not force marriages on them in the first place.
"You're losing it HMF..."
Again read.
"and here's a case where the woman in question "
the woman in question refers to an ex-gf that I mentioned in the previous post.
"My desi partner has indeed read some of this blog and he has no issues with me commenting here. Why would he?"
And I'm sure he disagrees with everything said here, as that's probably a pre-req for sticking his dick in you.
I actually have no idea what my partner thinks of this blog because he was silent after reading it. However, he is entitled to his own opinions. I am not the thought police.
I think that you and I are in agreement for the most part if you believe like I do, that adult men and women, desi or not, need to take 100% responsibility for the choices they make in their lives and they also need to carve out an existence for themselves as individuals separate from some monolithic "culture".
I am a firm believer in self determination for every American citizen or resident over the age of 18. What about you?
Yes I am. but what the hell does that have to do with women expecting men to approach, take all the risk, etc..?
As a self determined woman should she take more responsibility for her future and actively seek out men with money and looks (if that what she is into?)
"I actually have no idea what my partner thinks of this blog because he was silent after reading it. However, he is entitled to his own opinions."
My point was, had he agreed, it would have severely impaired his social life. Speaking out for the truth has it's costs.
"I actually have no idea what my partner thinks of this blog because he was silent after reading it"
I'm sure somewhere in your relationship conversation takes place, and it's not all just sexual intercourse
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